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The BACKHOE : Psyhovelcology
Walking in faith?
Posted: Sep-16-03 by the shovel  << Prev Topic | Next >>

  • Shovel: So, my friend ... what of the grace of God?
  • Friend: 'the fight of faith'
  • Shovel: yeah ... tell me of it
  • Friend: if we are 'in Christ' and this is literal reality, than the battle is not to believe our experience (if it doesn't match up to the truth of the Word of God)
  • Shovel: true, tis true ... things can appear to be otherwise
  • Friend: I am reading a good book about how Jesus is eager to live His life through us.....
  • Shovel: you mean, WE don't live the Christian life?
  • Friend: only ONE can:) ... when we believe and 'act' as He does, He is always faithful to meet us there
  • Shovel: how do you mean "to meet us there"?
  • Friend: Col. 2: 6 ..... so then, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, so in the same manner walk in Him........ God is always here ........no conditions........
  • Shovel: okay ... got that ... but the phrasing of "meet us there" ? not sure what that is saying
  • Friend: that might be my words, however, while reading his book he had mentioned that when one 'acts' as if Christ is going to live His life through us, He will meet us
  • Shovel: I'm not sure what that means
  • Friend: all i know is that I have experienced fullness, and peace in Christ knowing that He is always available for me
  • Shovel: okay ... I can appreciate that
  • Friend: I could not muster up the freedom that I am experiencing ... it certainly is a God thing :)
  • Shovel: No, my dear brother, you could not ... freedom is such a wonderful thing ... we have such a limited view of it most of the time
  • Friend: there are times when I don't want to yield to God
  • Shovel: what made you think of that? ... right now, that is?
  • Friend: this morning, when my oldest sister was over ... (note: describes situation) ... I was really ticked at her stupidity
  • Shovel: and how does this connect?
  • Friend: I know , a rather crude example...... but I was angry, an somewhat ignored her for some time afterwards
  • Shovel: This is the very real stuff of life ... do you normally get along?
  • Friend: yes ... I was just so angry this morning because of this ... I was aware that my flesh was in ascendancy ... but I wasn't 'willing' if you will, to let God live through me
  • Shovel: and what do you think would have been the thing that God wanted of you that you didn't want?
  • Friend: simply to thank Him for taking the situation from me, (but I would have none of it) ... I wanted control ... as so I was miserable for a time
  • Shovel: and how did you see yourself because of this?
  • Friend: missing His provision ... at that moment
  • Shovel: if you weren't angry then it would have been okay?
  • Friend: I don't think that the angry part for me was the issue, it was that for that moment, I wasn't experiencing Jesus
  • Shovel: once again, my questions aren't meant to provoke ... but to stimulate
  • Friend: I understand. ... I know that victory is not experiencing a virtue, but a PERSON, Jesus
  • Shovel: yes ... there is much that He teaches thru what we go thru
  • Friend: yes, He is faithful to turn all things out for our good:)
  • Shovel: sometimes I think we look too deeply for what it means to be experiencing Jesus
  • Friend: I am listening  :)
  • Shovel: and maybe we judge by what it seems to us. ... By what standard do you compare? ... I know how I get all screwed up
  • Friend: I know that now I am experiencing contentment (I do not hunger in my inner man)
  • Shovel: and does contentment always appear the same to you?
  • Friend: the living Jesus is our Standard
  • Shovel: I know by the questions I ask it may seem as if I would always be analyzing my situations but I have come to see how simple it all is
  • Friend: (I just came out of a long) "desert experience"
  • Shovel: and do you think the "desert experience" is valuable?
  • Friend: it's just that I have come out of a prolong period of deception where I had embraced an 'antinomian view'
  • Shovel: how do you mean, antinomian?
  • Friend: that experience, determined my identity and God leads one into sin to teach them more about themselves, I also viewed the Law as being a bad thing
  • Shovel: and have you learned something of value thru it?
  • Friend: it was through reading a book that God met me and revealed to me once again my true identity in Him, 'in Christ' ... feelings change like the wind
  • Shovel: yes, they do
  • Friend: the word of God abides forever
  • Shovel: but God is always leading even when you think you have taken a detour and that He is not around
  • Friend: knowing (having our identity revealed by the Holy Spirit) our identity is central in knowing Christ
  • Shovel: yes it is ... it is our birthright ... we sometimes try to pretend we don't know it ... hahaha ... but we do know it
  • Friend: God was nothing than a mere 'thought' for over 1 year during this time ... I was locked into myself , and in alot of pain
  • Shovel: but He was there nonetheless?
  • Friend: feelings of never ending emptiness was there day in and day out
  • Shovel: Kinda like the feeling that Jonah may have had ... utter despair
  • Friend: yes, but I believe that I didn't have to go through this, if I had accepted His Word
  • Shovel: Remember, God was in control the whole time. ... Do you remember what Paul told the Philippians?
  • Friend: I had rejected His word in place of a deceived teacher
  • Shovel: those nasty deceivers ... they are everywhere!!!!!!! ... see the simplicity?
  • Friend: the funny thing, was that this teacher.....God was manifest through Him every so often ... it just wasn't black and white
  • Shovel: more black and white than it may have appeared ... where are your eyes turned to ?
  • Friend: towards (the teacher) for most of the time, he said that "any choices on our part" is a human work, and that only what God does please God" ... partly true
  • Shovel: yes, partly true
  • Friend: I strongly believe that God calls us to make choices of faith.......to stand on His finsihed work and who He has made us in Christ
  • Friend:
  • Shovel: but is our life just a series of choices?
  • Friend: no, of course not, but faith is a very, it is active, spontaneous ... if I believe that a chair can hold, I am going to sit in it ... my sitting in it is my faith in action
  • Shovel: but if you believe the chair cannot hold ... and yet God says to sit in it anyways?
  • Friend: what God says is true
  • Shovel: yes ... that is pretty much what He does with us
  • Shovel: how did he perceive our life in Christ?
  • Friend: He said that we are all 'dead ducks' powerless, that God has to move us into life ... choice of faith on our part would be viewed by him as legalistic human perfomrance
  • Shovel: how does he say God moves in us?
  • Friend: He just says, in God's own way and in His own time He will move us out of the desert and into Life ... we ARE in Life now, 'in Christ ... he always stressed about 'being real'
  • Shovel: how so?
  • Friend: 'being true to yourself and what we feel on the inside ... never was our identity in Christ taught
  • Shovel:   :( ... wow, what a trap ... it is amazing how easily our thoughts can be pulled from our true life
  • Friend: he stressed how all things are lawful ... yes, and they are, we can truely live anyway we want
  • Shovel: and we call that, "being real", huh?
  • Friend: but, BUT we have a New Life in Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Shovel: yes I used to hold to a particular view ... about Romans 6 ... and walking in Newness of Life ... I heard it from a couple other guys ... it didn't seem right. ... It was this that until you come to count upon that fact .... reckoning, it is called ... until you "reckon" yourself dead unto sin and alive unto God ... you cannot walk in newness of Life.   Do you hear what that suggests?
  • Friend: our being dead to sin and alive to God is true reguardless
  • Shovel: yes!!!! ... do you have your bible there?
  • Friend: an electronic pocket one
  • Shovel: look up Romans 6:4
  • Friend: got it
  • Shovel: You kids ... with all your electronic gizmos
  • Friend: lol
  • Shovel: I declare!!! hahaha
  • Friend: yes it talks about our union with Christ
  • Shovel: do you see what Paul says about what is required for us to walk in newness of life?
  • Friend: the Resurrection of Christ was 'the requirement'
  • Shovel: yes, simple, huh?
  • Friend: :)
  • Shovel: It is because of what HE has done, but as you pointed out ... we DO walk in newness of Life now.  The word "might" is not contingient upon something we do or some position we come to or some understanding we grow to.    What a lot of BS that is.  How much would we have to know if that were the case?  How much of the gospel would we have to believe?  It is because of what HE has done.  As if we can "quantize" the understanding of the gospel!!!   It is a miracle after all!!!!   Is it not?  It gets real complicated ... but it really isn't.  If we had to believe a certain "amount" of the gospel before we could walk in newness of life, then we would never be able to.
  • Friend: I understand that it is by the finished work of Christ, but faith is something that He gave us to receive His grace
  • Friend: Eph 2:8 & 9
  • Shovel: okay ....
  • Friend: to believe in faith what He has done enable me to walk in Christ
  • Shovel: but then if you are not believing are you not walking in Christ?
  • Friend: I am in Christ, but I am walking BY the flesh
  • Shovel: then you don't walk in the Spirit?
  • Friend: my dependancy is not on Him at that moment
  • Shovel: aren't you quantizing faith?  How much is enough?  How much is not enough?
  • Friend: clearly He has given me enough faith.  I do not need more
  • Shovel: then if He has given you enough ... it is not always enough?
  • Friend: always ... but faith would not be faith if there wasn't any room for doubt
  • Friend: mustard seed is all that is nesc.
  • Shovel: aha!!
  • Friend: I do not have to work to get the right amount of faith
  • Shovel: and that is a rather insignificant seed in size
  • Friend: yes extremely so
  • Shovel: so then His suggestion was not on how much is needed ... was it?  as if we needed a certain amount?
  • Friend: no, I have no problem with this, the amount is not what is at issue for me ... faith itself, is the issue, faith would'nt be faith if there is not any room to doubt
  • Shovel: are you sure? ... is faith a thing?
  • Friend: I do not know, but I can ..... operate and do things without faith ... dead works
  • Shovel: yes, we understand that all too well, but that is not where our life is
  • Friend: amen ... Romans 6:11
  • Shovel: and how can we do that?
  • Friend: in the same way count yourselves dead to sin but alive to god in Christ Jesus ... therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body ... we have a choice ... to either yield are members to sin or to God
  • Shovel: and so if we just make the right choices ......
  • Friend: according to His leading
  • Shovel: what is really happening when you are counting yourself dead to sin and alive to God?  Is this an activity?
  • Friend: I am walking in Truth, relizing what God HAS ALREADY done :)
  • Shovel: yes, to count it true doesn't make it true
  • Friend: amen
  • Shovel: you count it true because it IS true ... this is not really a choice as we consider choices
  • Friend: why not?
  • Shovel: you know, "am I going to do this thing today?" kinda choice.  When you are making choices ...
  • Friend: I walk in what is already true
  • Shovel: right
  • Friend: that walking in is faith
  • Shovel: this is the simplicity of life.  THIS IS WHERE YOU LIFE IS.  We have done the "choice" thing all of our life
  • Friend: yes, Life is no where else, but in Christ
  • Shovel: usually between the "right" and the "wrong" ... there is almost always the right or wrong ... that dreaded tree
  • Friend: Jesus is The 'Right Choice'
  • Shovel: what are you going to choose? ... and what do we do?
  • Friend: walk in faith
  • Shovel: we are looking for the "right thing", but here is life vs. death ... not right vs wrong ... or the lesser of 2 evils ... or choosing the best
  • Friend: Life is found only is the Son
  • Shovel: yes
  • Friend: Jesus is 'The Best' :) lol
  • Shovel: when you consider your life as a series of choices, then it always becomes a law.  He is the ONLY ... there is life in none other
  • Friend: I know that during the common struggles victory is the living Christ , Himself
  • Shovel: yes, He in you, you in Him ... union.  Where do you really begin and where does He end ...?  or are we trying to separate something that has been joined?
  • Friend: Christ never had a beginning, and I was 'in Him' before the foundations of the world
  • Shovel: yes yes yes, amazing how it all works ... it's not logical ... for sure
  • Friend: so you wouldn't say that faith is 'a requirement' but rather a fruit, but.........
  • Shovel: it's more like the relationship ...
  • Friend: we move ...... and have our being in Him ... the moving is active
  • Shovel: like a tree that puts its roots down into the soil; the tree is dependent upon the ground whether it thinks it is or not it is entirely dependent.  That is a statement of fact ... the roots are in the soil ... the roots are in the soil, the soil is in the roots ... they are in union ... the dependence itself is like faith.
  • Friend: yes, but trees can not make choices and can not move their roots into other places
  • Shovel: nor can we in that sense.  our roots are in Christ, there is no other foundation.  we can be deceived into thinking all kinds of things, but our faith ... it is part of us.  Action springs forth as a result.  growth occurs ... in direct proportion to our dependence ... the gospel is the power
  • Friend: I am going to save this conversation and reflect upon it
  • Shovel: goodnight, my friend
  • Friend: take care for now, shovel , its been interesting, thanks for the thoughts and feedback!
  • Shovel: okeedokee
  • Friend: :)

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    The BACKHOE : Psyhovelcology
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